An interesting viewpoint:

ROBERT L. BOROSAGE

Where are the "values voters" when we need them? For last night in Denver, Americans began to hear the inescapable reality: in this election, the Democratic ticket reflects true family values.

The contrast is stark. Last night, Michelle Obama told her story: raised by devoted parents; her father, suffering from the growing pain of multiple sclerosis, rising earlier each morning to dress himself and take himself to work. His sacrifice and their love pushed their daughter and son to use her brains and discipline to grasp opportunities they never had -- college and, in her case, law school at Harvard. We'll hear more about Barack Obama's story over the week -- raised by a single mother and loving grandparents, providing his children with the love of a father that he never had.

In the audience were the Senator Biden and his family. Biden -- as Americans will surely learn on Wednesday -- is an exemplar in the Sodom and Gomorrah on the Potomac, that is the nation's capitol. He lost his first wife and daughter when they were struck by a truck; his two sons were seriously injured. He was sworn into the Senate standing by the bedside of his son, struggling to survive the accident. He then dedicated himself to raising those children, each night taking the train from Washington back to Wilmington so that he could be there for his sons. Eventually, he remarried, and did the same for the daughter he had with his second wife.

John McCain's family values -- not so much. Raised amidst the privilege provided the son and grandson of an admiral, he was famed for his wild youth. Married after graduating from the Naval Academy, he married and adopted his first wife's two children and had a daughter with her. She suffered a crippling automobile accident while he was in captivity in Vietnam. When he came back, he admittedly had a series of affairs with other women. At the Saddleback forum, he said the major "moral failure" of his life was the "failure of my marriage.' But His marriage didn't just "fail," he abandoned it, starting an affair with a wealthy heiress, and eventually asking his wife for a divorce. It took several years for the children to be reconciled with him. Cindy McCain's family financed his first campaign.Her fortune made him one of the richest men in the Senate, unable even to remember how many houses he has. He has two daughters (one adopted) and two sons with Cindy McCain.

In politics, adultery and other sins of the flesh are neither particularly rare nor partisan. There must be something in the water, or in the DNA of politicians: vows of monogamy, of "for richer or poorer," seem to have an escape clause The Democratic Party of Bill Clinton and John Edwards can't throw stones.

Hypocrisy, the tribute that vice pays to virtue, is a bipartisan Washington ritual. So politicians like McCain often espouse the family values that they flaunt in practice. And most voters, sensibly enough, are more concerned about whether a presidential candidate is on their side, than on whether he or she has lived a life of virtue.

But McCain's policies aren't exactly family friendly either. He opposes raising the minimum wage. He would tax employer based health care, which could stick families with a $2000-3000 tax increase. He's opposed equal pay for women, paid family leave and a range of measures that would help families struggling with declining wages and rising costs. He'd privatize Social Security which would truly hurt a parent whose spouse suffered an early death or a crippling disease.

How partisan are the evangelical voters who are said to be the "value voters?" Do they believe it is more important to parade conservative values than to practice them? Is adultery a minor sin, and less important that pledging to oppose a woman's right to choose -- while doing nothing as the number of abortions continues rise? Do they rally against those whose personal values are exemplary because they oppose their political views?

For years, Republicans have chanted their mantra -- low taxes, smaller government, strong military, family values - even as they have violated it in practice. In fact, they lowered taxes for the wealthy, while raising payroll taxes for working people - and now McCain wants to tax their health care. They left government less effective, but not smaller. They weakened the military and shortchanged veterans, even as they raised the Pentagon's budgets. And they have mocked the family values they espouse in the private lives they lived.

Will this matter to "value voters" or to true conservatives? That remains to be seen. But this time, if you care about family values, it is pretty clear who exemplifies the values Americans want to teach their children.

Well said, Anitra.

You are probably right about what Kent was pointing out, Ani. The one thing that bugs me so much is that why should McCain get flak for owning several houses? He worked hard, after a horrific experience, and enjoyed the fruits of his labor. So what? Why should it matter? Isn't that what America stands for? Why should he or anyone else be punished or ridiculed for doing well? That's just wrong too. And it's wrong for either side to do it to the other.

So, again, I think it's more important to focus on the issues that actually affect each of us, not on how much money the candidates have. Just sayin...

EZEZ
Suzanne Olden

Except that Curt welcomes the discussion of ideas and issues. He seems to want this to be about more than just music - more rounded. Plus, honestly, he has a platform here (more so than any of us would) to push for his candidate, so why not do it. We are all rounded people with opinions as to right and wrong, grey areas (or lack of them), where we stand on issues. But if we take the opportunity to discuss issues here, politely and passionately, we can get others to see other view points, even if they don't change their minds. I've seen it happen with me. I have always been opposed to government paid for, taxpayer supported health care. My reasons are many and have been put up here. But when Ideas mentioned before about a plan that would provide basic preventative care and catastrophic coverage, but excludes things that are not "necessary" (meaning elective, not preventative or life saving - for me things like viagra and birth control pills come to mind -not to start a whole thing on those particulars, but you get my drift) would actually be a plan I could get behind (but only if doctors make decisions on treatment, not the government). It contains cost, wouldn't be as expensive as a "comprehensive" plan that covers everthing including the kitchen sink, would keep families from losing their savings and homes if something really bad happened (like cancer). So minds can be changed, people brought around. I hope that some things that I have posted have made y'all think - maybe changed a mind or two??? Who knows.

But let's focus on issues, not extraneous stuff. Each candidate has done well financially, or they wouldn't be where they are. It takes money to run for office, especially on that level, so to make a point about how many homes someone has is not the issues we should be looking at. What we should be worried about is national security, illegal immigration, health care, our economy, and how each person's solutions to each issue will impact each of us on a personal, social and economic level. So they have good working solutions? Will it raise taxes or lower them? These are the thing we should be looking at. And what they say needs to be backed up with their voting records. Each candidate has said things that their voting records doesn't bear out - Obama says he doesn't support abortion at any point in a pregnancy, including at birth (meaning infanticide), but his vote on the issue in Illinois says otherwise. McCain says he is tough on illegal immigration, but again votes say otherwise. Votes speak louder than words, so we each need to do our homework.

EZEZ
Suzanne Olden

2002-2003 state expenditures $76 billion, 2008-2009 proposed expenditures , $103 billion. thats a lot of extra spending when the economy is tight. This is why I said that the CA congress is not doing their jobs. Both parties spent freely in a great economy. You have to tighten the belt in a struggling economy, not spend more. Politically, however, thats a death sentence.

Ideas As Opiates Arnold came here legally and didn't cut in line to be here like so many others have taken advantage of with our extremely weak immigration laws with both liberals and corporate america aiding it.Arnold had only a few dollars in his pocket when he arrived in the US and then he built an 800 million dollar empire from hard work and getting an education.Secondly on the so called illegal immigrants that this country was built on a few hundred years ago I am lost-- are you speaking of the slavery ?---our country forced them to come and I know England,Ireland,Germany,Holland,Italy etc.and the Americans that were brought here legally by us from Africa at that time were the slaves which have become the greatest asset to our rich history with all the wonderful contributions they have made to our nation- African americans helped make this country what it is today with hard work legally with the horrible situation they were dealt and overcame thanks to men like Martin Luther King.Illegal immigrants take most of the jobs here in So Cal,not just the fruit picking ones but all the trades and they also control most of the union construction and factory jobs and recently all the fast food jobs too--high school kids can't even get work at most restaurants-they have all of them ! They hold almost every position in California now that doesn't require a degree where I live.It is hilarious that anyone could make a statement that illegals only take the lousy jobs nobody want's-I'm laughing now too just thinking about it, and they also deserve free healthcare from our tax dollars - that is insanity ! And my wife actually makes quite a bit more than the $250k Obama is talking about taxing--but after seeing him the other night I don't believe he has any chance of winning the general election and I've changed my opinion of him-when it isn't a speech he is very inexperienced and I saw right through it--at this point in his young career I wouldn't vote for him for any major office even though he is likeable.I'm sure McCain signs will be in the yard posted by the wife---and I won't be taking them down like the Bush ones last time around ! Kent

Educational system is a big topic - but lets have a go at it. I also live in CA, and I find it horrifying that my son, in Kindergarten, is starting standardized testing. Even worse, the teachers are already teaching to the test. And this is our OWN fault. When you judge teachers by their students standardized test scores, you get what you expect - teachers teaching kids how to succeed on the test.

Mind you, my son did great on them - but what annoys me is that he could actually get punished for being good at something, if he doesn't take shortcuts like are taught. Take math - for the K test, the teachers taught the kids to first try to find all the '+0' questions and answer them, then +1, etc. So lets say you are someone who, instead, just answers the questions as they get them. There is no scale for 'easy' vs 'hard' problems. So someone that answers 20 +0 and +1 questions does better than someone who answers 19 random questions.

I want teachers who teach my kids to think, to problem solve. I don't want teachers who teach them how to take tests. Yet by todays system, those teachers that teach test-taking will do better. All because we don't want to have evaluations of teachers that are subjective, we feel a standard measure does the trick. But unless we have much more complicated testing (that rewards answering hard questions > than easy ones) we get a teachers that are pushed to teaching the tests.

I support a lot of what Arnold has done (or attempted to do) as governor. Yet, despite having a 10% income tax, and nearly the same in sales tax, we are still spending way more than we bring in. And that HAS occurred on Arnold's watch. The problem is - no one in the state government wants to make the hard choices (that goes for Dems and Reps). The fact we have no state budget by now is inexcusable. Even with Arnold's proposed new budget, 50% is education, and the amounts are staggering. Where is that money doing to?

We copped out and created standardized tests for everything, and the majority of teachers are teaching standard curriculums...so that should create a much cheaper education system, not more expensive. The mind boggles.
I find your stance on 'illegals' - who do you think fills the low end jobs that no one wants to do in the state of CA? Yes - health care is expensive - but its even more expensive because people without health care tend to get treated in ERs, which is the most expensive place to be treated.

I worked farm labor growing up - the majority of people doing that are migrant labor. They work hard, get paid little, and have an awful standard of living. Those workers give us a food supply that is bigger and cheaper. Now add in low end construction jobs, etc. We have built our standard of living on the backs of the poor in our country, and in others. I'm sorry, but I can't begrudge them getting medical care. Its the least we owe them.

And yes, I complain about my tax bill as well. But that is why we have a government tax system - to provide basic infrastructure that drives our country. Health care should be part of that.

And if your wife is making $250K, how do you think she is able to do that? Because our country has prospered economically. She met opportunity with personal ability. Be thankful that we have that opportunity. Thank the illegals over the past couple of centuries for providing the sweat equity to build up the country (yes, a great deal of our own citizens provided that as well).

The scary thing is - we seem to have lost that work ethic as a country. If you want to put a finger on whats going wrong - start there.

In California with the 5th largest economy in the world over 50% of our tax dollars go toward's education and yet we have one of the " LOWEST RATED PUBLIC EDUCATIONAL" systems in the USA and millions go towards illegal's getting medical care , we should send their home countrie's the bill.The main reason for this I believe is because union's put the teacher's interest's ahead of the children's = I would like the children to have a union representing them instead---I have 3 children ! This is one of the main reason's I voted for the Governator and will be voting for McCain in 08' whom Arnold also support's heavily to attempt tp eliminate some of the bureaucracy =waste of tax dollar's I worked so hard to earn.My wife came from an immigrant family "legally" from Mexico with 10 brothers and sisters , never did her family accept a nickel of welfare and they were extremely poor 5 kid's to a room and my wife and her brothers and sisters all accomplished graduating from college and now most are successful professional's in the workplace and now she is really upset with all her hard work getting an education for a better way of life for 20 year's Obama want's to punish her and tax her for making over $250k which as a stockbroker and financial consultant she well understands will only hurt small business that employs workers with this level of annual income and especially in these hard times jobs will be lost and the economy will suffer greatly.Kent James

I guess I put that rather harshly, but it was the only way that it can be put. I can be swayed on most issues - I may not come around to another's way of thinking, but I will listen and respect your opinion, even if I disagree. This is just one, given my experience with it, that I just can't move my stubborn German head away from. But thank you for your kind respect for my stance.

As for oil, I can see your point on this as well. We do need to find alternatives, but be careful that the alternatives don't cause other economic problems before jumping ship into them.

Actually I like your idea for health care and it really does mirror some of what I've been saying. My family has coverage for catastrophic illness. It's the preventative that we struggle with. But the idea that anything elective should be "on you" definitely appeals to me. Makes people think twice if they have to pay for it. Just want to caution that it should be doctors deciding necessity vs. elective, not the government. I like the idea though - that would actually work...

See, I can be swayed... ;)

EZEZ
Suzanne Olden

P.S. - just want to point out to Papa Smith that Kim will be here in Baltimore with me this weekend, if he wanted to make a pit stop and hang out on his way home, we'd very graciously change our plans. It would make an awesome birthday present (my husband's gift to me was Kim's airfare here for the weekend for my birthday, which happens to be today) even better... Just sayin... :)

If i only i had a magic wand!!! :-)
Cx

Suzanne - thanks for responding. Sorry I misinterpreted your "health insurance" for "universal health care".

I think you've just made an excellent case against the existing US style of health insurance and medical system! Here in Canada everyone in the country is insured. In some provinces all health insurance costs are covered by the government. In other provinces people pay a premium for their health insurance (but even in those provinces, based on a means test, if your income is under a certain level you will receive a full subsidy and pay nothing). I believe I pay the full amount in my province - $44 per month. If you can't afford it, you don't have to pay. But, come January 2009 the provincial government is doing away with the fee, and it will be free for everyone. Our taxes are not going up - the government is paying for it from oil industry revenue. And we have free choice to go to whichever doctor, clinic, or hospital we want to. No one in Canada has to bring a Visa card to the doctor's office with them, and no-one goes bankrupt for being sick in this country. And yes, I'm sure the WHO figures can be disputed, but it is indisputable that Canadians have a lower infant mortality rate, and a longer life expectancy than Americans. Our health care system has to factor in to those birth-to-death statistics.

You are right that taxes usually don't go down, but we have been lucky enough that our federal sales tax, the GST, has been reduced from 7% to 5% over the last couple of years. And taxes do vary between provinces, as I said before (as they do in various states - I know Oregon has no sales tax at all, for example). I would guess that your cross-border shoppers were looking for cheap deals when our dollar was low against the US dollar. A lot less people will be doing that now, with our dollars bouncing around more or less even with each other.

Happy Tuesday everyone...
Robert
Living in a carnival of compromise.

Drilling offshore is a HUGE mistake ! The ecosystem will be devastated for future generations and even if it did reduce the price of oil to "under a dollar" it would be the wrong thing to do and I have spoken to several experts that tell me it wouldn't lower gas prices or increase supply significantly at all ! I don't understand how somebody with a Harvard education like Obama which I know is well aware of these facts can still support offshore drilling , McCain on the other hand just like Obama knows the majority of the republican party -especially right wingers wanted to drill yesterday and he also is being pressured to say what it takes to win in 08'----both men are pissing me off ! Kent

Thanks for speaking out against the hypocrisy of the "traditional family" in today's society. One of my high school teachers had a sticker on her classroom door that read: "Caring people can make a family." I think back to that now, especially in regard to the amount of neglect and the love-less environment that so many children are raised in now. I hope America will grow to change it's views about love - that it's equally shared beyond gender constraints and applicable to all.

Phew. I had to get that off my chest, too. Thanks for your "liberal agenda." ;)

Enjoy your vacation.

I can't say much about canadian health care, because I have only used it once, though that might be pertinent. Almost 10 years ago, I got fairly inexpensive laser eye surgery in Canada. Part of that was taking advantage of exchange rates, part of it was a much cheaper cost to begin with. And the real clincher for me was that the Canadian doctors were using the latest and greatest (at the time) laser technology - whereas in the US, I couldn't get access to it.

Not your typical health care 'story'. (and while I just gave one, however, such stories bely the danger in listening to the squeaky wheel, instead of research the overall picture). The case that is the exception, especially if its a bad experience, will often override the 'normal' experience.

Suzanne's comments on 'drugs are bad' needs a little more response, however. 'Abuse' of anything is bad. Thus the word abuse. I do not relate trying something once, with abuse. Its sort of like the people that freak out when a pregnant woman has a glass of wine,or god forbid drinks coffee. As my wife doc said, all things in moderation. A glass of wine is NOT going to harm your child. A bottle, however, is pushing it.

Funny enough, no one lumps aspirin, allergy medication, and the like into 'drugs are bad' - yet they are drugs, pure and simple. Coffee is rarely in the conversation, yet a large portion of our country is at least moderately addicted to caffeine.

Drugs are NOT by definition bad. Abuse/addiction is. There is a difference. And again, this is from someone who drinks a beer or two a month, and likely has a glass of wine in that same amount of time.

Now as far as sampling marijuana being a self-fulfilling prophecy - who knows. I tend to be a realist. Risk/reward is the key. There is very little risk in trying marijuana, and I would rather know about it, than have it hidden from me. I want my kids first beer to be in my supervision. My 6 yo has tasted beer, and like most kids that age - didn't like it. Its a great way to remove the aura around alcohol. In my experience - when you forbid something, you create a lure to it, but if you make it ordinary (just undesirable), its much less of an issue. Its why I think the best prevention is knowledge.